|
Editor's Note:
Samar Fatany, a radio talk show
host from Jeddah, recently visited
the United States and participated
in discussions of US-Saudi
relations in several forums.
The Saudi-American Forum is
pleased to present transcripts of
her talks with a
Boston radio station and as a
panelist
at the 12th Annual Arab-US
Policymakers Conference in
Washington.
Mrs.
Fatany is Senior Announcer and
Radio Journalist in the English
Service at Radio Jeddah, where she
prepares and presents cultural,
religious, and news programs,
covers local and international
conferences and trade exhibitions,
conducts interviews with official
delegations and dignitaries
visiting the Kingdom, and covers
major events and activities of
foreign embassies and consulates
in the Kingdom.
[Boston
Radio Talk Show Interview-
September 20, 2003]
 Host:
We’re talking with Samar
Hussein Fatany. She is a
radio talk host in Saudi
Arabia. You’re going
to love this conversation
so let’s get right to
it. Talk about being a
working woman in Saudi
Arabia. Our image here is
that doesn’t happen
except in rare cases. Are
you privileged? Is that
why you get to be a
professional woman in
Saudi Arabia?
Samar
Fatany: No, I think
it’s more having to do
with qualifications. I
mean, if you’re
qualified and you have the
proper experience, I
don’t think you have a
problem in finding a job.
Our problem is that we do
not.. Our students or our
graduates don’t have the
proper skills or the
qualifications to be
integrated into the work
force. People are
reluctant to employ, you
know, young graduates who
don’t have the
experience, who don’t
have the proper skills or
their education is not up
to the standard. That’s
our problem.
Host:
But it sounds like
you’re proposing a
circular argument. How
does a woman become
qualified? Does she have
the same educational
opportunities as a man?
Samar
Fatany: Yes,
but our problem is our
graduates from Saudi
Arabia don’t have the
proper qualifications. In
other words their
education is not what it
should be.
Host:
Does one have to be
affluent then to be
educated overseas in order
to compete for jobs in
Saudi Arabia?
Samar
Fatany: Definitely. It
would be a problem for
women because there
aren’t so many jobs. The
opportunities are very
limited. So, the
competition is very big
and to compete you need to
have better
qualifications. I guess
it’s the same problem
all over the world. The
only thing is it’s even
more so because in Saudi
Arabia the educational
system needs to be
upgraded.
Host:
Are efforts underway to
improve the quality of
education and the
educational options inside
of Saudi Arabia?
 Samar
Fatany:
There’s
a lot that’s being done.
There are so many training
centers that are opening
up. There are four more
universities that have
opened. There are also
training centers to give
young graduates better
skills to be able to be
better acquainted once
they’re integrated into
the work force. Computer
centers are being set up
everywhere. English
language programs are also
encouraged.
Host:
We’re talking with
Samar Hussein Fatany
who’s a senior announcer
at Radio Jeddah. She’s a
radio talk host in Saudi
Arabia and Samar my
impression of Saudi Arabia
is that there’s sort of
a ruling class and then a
lower class but not a
middle class. Is that
accurate?
Samar
Fatany: There
is definitely a middle
class, yes. There’s
definitely a middle class.
The majority of, you
know.. Well, maybe
there’s upper middle
class and there’s lower
middle class but then you
have the towns and the
provinces and that’s
where, you know, you find
the poverty, not in the
cities.
Host:
Well, you’re very
well traveled. When you
travel to the United
States and other places
around the word and see
how the average person
lives here, how does that
match up against the
average Saudi?
Samar
Fatany: Well,
it’s a different culture
altogether, you know.
Saudis, we’re still
living in the extended
family lifestyle. 60% of
our population are under
the age of 20.
|
Host:
This is a
shocking
statistic. I
just can’t get
over that.
Samar
Fatany: It
is a fact and
50% are women.
So the lifestyle
and what people
are involved in
are more to do..
are very family
oriented.
They’re busy
with taking care
of the family,
family duties.
People are, you
know.. It’s
like anywhere
else in the
world. They’re
involved with
their daily life
so there’s
no.. People are
not discussing
politics all
day. You know
what I mean? And
we don’t have
that political
maturity, yet,
to demand
democracy or all
that goes with
it.
|
"People
are becoming
more vocal in
demanding
reforms.
There’s an
urgency
for it."
|
Host:
Is that political
maturity coming soon?
Samar
Fatany: Definitely,
all this.. The younger
generation, all these 20
year olds and the young
graduates that have come
back from the United
States, that’s why
it’s very important to
have the proper guidance
or the proper channeling
of the way things go, the
direction of the young,
how they think, and what
services you provide for
them.
Host:
How will your government
respond to the kind of
challenge you are talking
about? Is it equipped to
respond to this kind of
challenge?
Samar
Fatany: We have
the consultative council
and there’s also now the
national debate that is
involving all sectors of
the community. People are
becoming more vocal in
demanding reforms.
There’s an urgency for
it. The press has opened
up. There are so many ways
and means for the public
to discuss what is needed
for the community and for
the society. There were
100 intellectuals who have
written to Prince Abdullah
asking for reforms. They
were received and a lot of
the demands and
discussions were taken
into consideration and
already there are a lot of
reforms taking place in
the economic regulations
to help the economy and to
help the business
community. They are
encouraging women to go
into business and opening
business opportunities for
women.
Host:
Is there capital
available? How does a
woman open a business?
Samar
Fatany: Oh,
yes. There are so many
family businesses with
women heirs and a lot of
their money is just lying
in banks and you find that
a lot of the bankers and a
lot of the business people
and even the government
are encouraging these
women to invest and not to
have their money lying
just idly in the banks.
Host:
We’re talking with
Samar Hussein Fatany.
She’s a senior announcer
at Radio Jeddah.
[COMMERCIAL
BREAK]
Host:
And we’re talking with
Samar about the state of
affairs in Saudi Arabia in
general and specifically
the state of women in
Saudi Arabia. Samar,
Americans view Saudi women
as being victims. Do Saudi
women view themselves this
way?
| Samar
Fatany: Not
at all. Women
don’t view
themselves as
victims. They
are not abused
and they’re
not oppressed.
You know our
family values
are really
something that
protects the
women. I think
women.. the
woman in the
family is the
most respected
person.
Culturally,
traditionally
and even
religiously the
woman is
considered to be
sacred. You
know, in Islam,
there’s a
saying that
paradise is
under the feet
of a woman. |
"Women
don’t view
themselves as
victims.
They are not abused and
they’re not oppressed."
|
Host:
You make it sound,
Samar, as if there are no
challenges, there are no
problems for women with
equality for women within
Saudi Arabia is this what
you mean to portray?
Samar
Fatany: We need
to address the status of
women, the empowerment of
women, putting her in
leadership positions.
Allowing her to be
involved in the decision
making process and all
that. That’s what
we’re working on at the
moment. It doesn’t mean
that she’s oppressed or
abused, you see.
Host:
But when Americans
hear stories like the
girls in the school who
were, who perished in the
fire because they
weren’t allowed to exit
because they weren’t
dressed properly..
Samar
Fatany: It’s
just incompetence. They
didn’t realize the
danger that they were
putting them in. They
didn’t realize they
could die. It’s just out
of sheer stupidity and
incompetence and
ignorance.
Host:
September 11th seems
not to have had as much
impact on Saudi Arabia,
both the people and the
government as did..
Samar
Fatany: The
12th of May bombing of
Riyadh? Definitely, of
course. We felt that this
is serious. I mean it’s
not a matter of people
saying they don't exist.
It was the complete
evidence that terrorists
do exist.
Host:
Were some Saudi’s
pleased with the Americans
getting a slap in the face
on September 11th?
| Samar
Fatany: I
really get
pained and
disturbed when I
hear that. That
is absolutely
not true. The
idea that Saudis
hate Americans,
it is so painful
to hear that.
You know
it’s.. America
is the number
one destination
for all Saudi
families to
travel to. It is
the dream of
every Saudi
graduate to
study in the
United States.
It is where we
bring our people
for medical
treatment. It is
where we love to
come because we
were treated so
well when we
used to come
here. We felt
very hurt. We
were upset that
this happened
because, of
course, it’s
an embarrassment
for us that
Saudis are
involved.. I can
understand your
anger and your
rage after
giving us this
best treatment,
to act in this
way. I wish to
God those Saudis
were not
involved, but
they were
criminals. You
cannot apply
collective guilt
on a whole
nation or a
whole country
for a few
criminals that
were involved.
It’s not fair. |
"The
idea that Saudis
hate
Americans, it is
so painful
to hear that.
You know
it’s..
America is the
number one
destination for
all Saudi
families to
travel to. It is
the dream of
every Saudi
graduate to
study in the
United States."
|
[COMMERCIAL
BREAK]
Host:
Let’s wrap up our
segment, our fascinating
interview with radio talk
host from Saudi Arabia,
Samar Hussein Fatany. Has
the Saudi government
turned a blind eye to
dangerous elements in the
religious community? Is
there a problem with
religion in Saudi Arabia
supporting terrorism?
Samar
Fatany: You
want to refer to the
Wahhabis and that
they’re a radical form
of Islam. Wahhabis are not
a radical form of Islam.
Wahhabis are not bin
Ladens. They are, they
represent traditional
Islam, just as you have
here the traditional
Christians who view anyone
who’s not a good
Christian as a sinner.
That sort of thing, but
they’re not militant and
they’re not radicals. If
they’re against the
American way of life or
the American lifestyle of
the women who are not
modestly dressed or so on,
they view me the same way
as anyone else. It’s got
nothing to do with you
being an American or a
Saudi or any other
nationality. It’s the
idea that they want
traditional Islam. It’s
not a radical form of
Islam.
Host:
You would argue then
that there’s a radical
element within that’s
giving the whole a bad
name.
Samar
Fatany: Of
course, yes, there are but
they’re a minority and
at the moment they’re
being dealt with. There
are so many of them that
have been fired and
they’re not allowed to
preach in Mosques anymore
and there are others who
have been
re-indoctrinated. I mean,
going back to school and
going back to the
teachings of moderate
Islam. We are for the war
on terror. There is no
dispute over that, but we
can not apply the policies
of collective guilt and
accuse people right and
left. This way we will
definitely not win. We
need to be tolerant. We
need to use wisdom and
patience and the right way
to do it is not to accuse
people who are innocent --
then we are all going to
be losers.
Host:
What would you say,
Samar, is the biggest
misunderstanding that
Americans have about
Saudis? What is it you’d
like them to know?
Samar
Fatany: The
biggest problem is the
views of the Arab
population or the Muslim
population towards
American policies.
American policies are very
different from the
American people. I don’t
think most of the American
are not very political.
Most of them, I don’t
think they know their
geography or where Saudi
Arabia is located. So they
have nothing to do with
the policies of the
government and we realize
that.
Host:
You’re saying that
the Saudi people are angry
at the United States for
its governments policies.
Why is that? What policies
have angered them?
Samar
Fatany: The
blind support for the
Likud. Their blind support
for settlers who are
evicting families from
their homes and stealing
land and the humility and
the deprivation and the
occupation of the
Palestinian people.
Definitely, we all feel
for that.
Host:
It seems that
virtually all anger
towards the United States
coming out of the Middle
East has its roots in our
policy towards Israel.
Would you agree?
Samar
Fatany: Exactly,
because the United States
is the only supporter of
the Likud government.
There’s no other
government in the whole
world that supports that.
The only supporter of the
Likud is the United
States.
Host:
But it’s more than
just the Likud government,
isn’t it? It’s anger
towards Israel in general.
Samar
Fatany: Well,
Israel, if they had
another kind of
government, maybe there
would be a chance for the
Palestinians and the
Israelis to live in peace.
There’s the Peace Now
movement. There’s the
peace initiative of Crown
Prince Abdullah and the
Arab league to recognize
Israel as a state and to
have a Palestinian state
but the Likud government
refuses to give a
Palestinian state and
that’s the whole
problem.
Host:
In your opinion has
the Arab world turned the
corner with regard to the
acceptance of the Jewish
state?
Samar
Fatany: Yes.
That’s been going on for
a long time. It’s not
only today. I mean, the
Intifada, why did the
Intifada happen? It
happened because the
complete refusal of
allowing a Palestinian
state and it was just
going on and on, false
promises, lies,
procrastination, delays,
and the suffering
continued. The suffering
continued until you got
the madness of suicide
bombers. It’s complete
madness.
Host:
We’ve been talking with
Samar Hussein Fatany here.
She is a senior announcer
at Radio Jeddah in Saudi
Arabia. She is a radio
talk show host and it’s
been fascinating talking
with her.
| 12TH
ANNUAL ARAB-US
POLICYMAKERS CONFERENCE |
|
Washington,
DC
September 7-8, 2003
Samar
El-Fatany:
Good morning,
ladies and gentlemen.
It really is a
great pleasure for me to
be here with you today.
Before I begin, I
would like to extend my
condolences on behalf of
the people of
Saudi Arabia
on the upcoming
anniversary of the
September 11th tragedy.
 I'm
here this morning because
I feel it's very important
to present an accurate
portrayal of Islam and
Saudi Arabia
today in order to curtail
the severe damage to
people-to-people ties
between Americans and
Saudi Arabians resulting
in the aftermath of the
September 11th tragedy.
In Saudi Arabia
, we believe that the
United States
is unnecessarily making
enemies in Saudi Arabia
and losing influence in
the Middle East
and the Muslim world at
large.
Threats and
inflammatory rhetoric do
not stop terrorism. They
enhance it and increase
its influence.
No
one country can counter
international terrorism by
itself.
We all support the
war on terror.
There is no dispute
over that.
But we need to work
together in order to
discuss what exactly is
damaging people-to-people
ties between Saudi
Arabians and Americans
today.
It's
a perception in
Saudi Arabia
that there is a smear
campaign orchestrated in
part by the U.S. media
against our religion and
country to create a
conflict that is
politically motivated.
We're attacked with
allegations that are
malicious and unjust.
Allow me to address
four major allegations
that are a source of
tension back home.
I
begin with the allegation
that
Saudi Arabia
is a land that harbors
terrorists and supports an
evil extremist ideology in
the world today.
We're being
attacked in your media for
our religion, which means
peace, and a religion that
rejects terrorism.
We are being
accused of harboring
terrorists, whose main aim
is to overthrow our
government.
We strongly reject
these allegations, and we
will continue to cooperate
with the law enforcement
agencies and with
international
organizations to confront
and probe the causes
behind terrorism.
Saudi
security forces and
citizens are united in
exposing and arresting
those who terrorize
innocent people and
promote extremist
ideologies that are alien
to our true faith.
Religious scholars
and responsible citizens,
as well as concerned
mothers in
Saudi Arabia
are very determined to
guide the unenlightened
youth on the moderation of
Islam and its teachings
To
target
Saudi Arabia
alone and forget all other
extremist ideologies that
exist in the world today
is unjust.
Extremist
ideologies are
international phenomena.
For example, the
right-wing Likud maintains
an extremist ideology.
The Likud in
Israel
has hijacked the Jewish
people with their
extremist ideology.
Instead
of supporting peace or the
peace initiative of Crown
Prince Abdullah and the
recognition of
Israel
by the Arab League, or the
Peace Now movement and the
land for peace policy in
Palestine
, they have turned against
their religion and worked
against their people's
interests for the sake of
an extremist ideology.
The Likud has made
Israel
the most hated country in
the Muslim world,
unfortunately, and
continues to make things
worse, despite
international advice.
The
U.S. money that supports
Likud settlements and
assassinations does not
give credibility to the
U.S. objective of bringing
peace and prosperity to
the region and reinforces
the perception in the Arab
and Muslim world of a U.S.
administration that works
only for the interest of
the Likud and therefore
will find no cooperation
or sympathies from the
Arab man and woman on the
street.
The
extremists in the Muslim
world have resorted to
violence to retaliate
partly against the
injustices and frustration
that they feel and partly
by following false leaders
like Osama bin Laden.
They too have
turned against their
religion and against their
people by pursuing a
dangerous and deadly path.
They continue to
threaten world peace.
Another
example of extremism is
the neo-conservatives of
America
, who in alliance with the
extremists from the
religious right dominate
the U.S.
administration, and their
allies are carrying out a
malicious media campaign
against the Muslim world
today.
According to the
Anti-Discrimination
Committee, there exists a
negative U.S. stance
towards Muslims and Arabs
on the educational level
following the September
11th events. American
education curricula depict
Muslims as terrorists,
rapists and oppressors of
women and believers of the
holy war.
The
curricula portray Arabs as
camel riders and sand
slaves.
The Arab man is
depicted as an oil sheik
who's wealthy, extravagant
and wants to buy the
United States
with his money.
But this only
augments the deep
anti-Arab bias that has
existed in your movies and
your media for decades.
We
strongly denounce this
distortion of the image of
Islam and Muslims.
This harmful
stereotyping of 1.25
billion Muslims in the
world and of Arabs in
general, whether
Christians or Muslims,
will only escalate
tensions and add fuel to
the fire.
To put an end to
the state of terror, we
need tolerance and
goodwill.
Although President
Bush after the September
11th attacks had said that
Islam was not his target,
sadly the
U.S.
media has not heeded his
call and continues to
antagonize the Muslim
world, sometimes based on
ignorance but more often
specifically malicious.
These smear
campaigns against Islam by
the neo-conservatives are
working against the
American people by
spoiling the image of
America that was once the
most respected nation and
the dream of every citizen
of the world.
It
is a perception in the
Arab world that there are
certain elements in this
administration and their
neo-con fellow travelers,
who are bent on driving a
wedge between the United
States and Saudi Arabia.
They belittle our
stewardship of extensive
oil interests and demean
the sixty-year political
relationship between the
two countries, through Op-eds
and with congressional
hearings which are
recycled into Op-eds –
discarding decades of
mutual interest
established by wise
leadership.
Today,
the United States
and
Saudi Arabia
are confronted with a
dangerous threat, a threat
that the radicals of both
sides helped create to
combat the Red Army in
Afghanistan
.
It was a huge
mistake not to confront
them earlier. We
both chose to ignore them
in order to avoid
confrontations and thus
underestimated their
power.
It would be a grave
mistake to allow their
power to overtake us now.
Solely taking the
military path and
discarding decades of the
culture of legal solutions
will only gain the
United States
worldwide animosity.
The
United States
should allow the moderates
to use their wisdom and
patience in order to
overcome the menace of
terrorism.
Let us not make
peace and human rights be
the casualty in the war on
terror.
Another
U.S.
allegation against
Saudi Arabia
is that Saudi money
intended for needy
Palestinians reaches
militants.
This is not true.
Saudi financial
assistance is used to
build houses, support poor
students and buy relief
supplies.
The Kingdom has
helped build 600 housing
units in the
Gaza
and the
West Bank
for people who had lost
their homes in Israeli
attacks.
Saudi
Arabia
is helping Palestinian
students pursue their
education, which is what
all relief and
international
organizations do. If
some donations of the
Saudi people go to
militants in
Palestine
, it is not through us.
But remember, there are
many churches and
synagogues in the United
States that have been
funding settlers in
Palestine
. Why
are they not accused of
harboring militants that
are stealing land and
evicting families from
their homes?
Yet
another allegation is that
Saudi Arabia
is not doing enough to
rein in terrorists. On
the contrary, the Saudi
government and people are
united in fighting
terrorism. Families of
suspects willingly
cooperate to hand over
their children to the
authorities.
Individuals, who
are either linked with the
bombing in
Riyadh
or accused of any
suspected terrorist
activities, are encouraged
by their families to give
themselves up. Crown
Prince Abdullah has
threatened sympathizers.
We are in a state
of shock and disbelief.
Our crime rate is
low, and in spite of our
diversity, we are united
as a nation.
We will capitalize
on this, and we will not
allow the war on terror to
jeopardize this reality.
The
radicals who support or
sympathize with terrorists
are a minority, and they
are being dealt with.
However, we will
not follow policies of
applying collective guilt
and threatening people
right and left or accusing
the innocent and thereby
losing our supporters and
gaining only resistance
from all.
Saudi citizens are
faced with a huge
responsibility to stem
terrorism and resist the
threat of extremist
ideology that has
infiltrated into a
minority of misguided
individuals in our
society.
Families, schools
and mosques, as well as
the country's moderates
and intellectuals, are
united in a campaign to
expose these alien beliefs
of militancy and violence
and show the truth.
Moreover,
there is a strong media
movement in
Saudi Arabia
that is supporting
national dialogue,
managing web sites,
conducting awareness
campaigns, and holding
conferences in an effort
to reject extremists who
are using religion for
their selfish political
gains.
Finally,
I wish to address
allegations about abducted
children of American
mothers and Saudi fathers
held against their will in
Saudi Arabia
.
There are over
350,000 cases of child
abductions in the
United States
per year.
I'm told that there
are over 1,100 American
children being wrongfully
kept in foreign countries.
The overwhelming
majority of cases are in
Germany
,
Austria
,
Mexico
,
England
and Canada
.
To
put this in perspective,
less than one percent of
them involve Saudi
parents.
Unfortunately for
the children, child
custody matters are
notoriously complex from a
legal standpoint.
Nonetheless, we in
Saudi Arabia
are working hard to
resolve these
heartbreaking situations,
realizing that there are
two sides to each story.
Saudi
Arabia
today is witnessing an
awakening of the silent
majority.
It is a process
that is unstoppable now.
However, it needs
to be channeled and
nurtured.
It will be a lost
opportunity not to support
it or to work against it.
The
United States
is calling for democratic
reforms in the GCC
countries and the Arab
world today. We
know we have a lot to do
on this score in
Saudi Arabia
.
What can you do to
help us?
Allow me to share a
few suggestions.
In
order to further these
political reforms in
Saudi Arabia
in particular, the
United States
needs to restore American
credibility among the
Saudi citizens, who see
many of the U.S.
foreign policies and
aggressive rhetoric as a
threat to their
sovereignty and integrity.
In
order to further these
political reforms in
Saudi Arabia
, the United States
needs to reinforce
cultural cooperation,
respect the right to
practice cultural
diversity on a national
level and encourage
dialogue among
civilizations, rather than
pursue the clash of
civilizations that does
not serve anyone's
national interes | |
Printer Friendly Version